Gutless Wonders

26 Jun


BREAKING UPDATE: Tony Windsor too. Good news for Barnaby. More below.

From the Australian:

FEDERAL independent MP Rob Oakeshott, whose crucial support helped Labor form the minority government after the 2010 election, has announced he is quitting politics.

The federal member for Lyne has told his local newspaper he will not contest the September 14 election, saying he wants to spend more time with his family and had achieved his goals in parliament.

“Now is the moment,” he told the Macleay Argus.

“I have done everything I said I was going to do and done the best I can.”

Mr Oakeshott, who held the NSW north-coast seat of Lyne for five years, denied his decision was prompted by fear of losing at the upcoming federal election.



From the Australian:

THE two independents who backed Julia Gillard personally to form a minority Labor government – Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott – are bowing out of politics.

Congratulations BJ.

Presumably you’re now a shoe-in to win New England.

55 Responses to “Gutless Wonders”

  1. bushbunny June 26, 2013 at 11:12 am #

    I contacted Tony Windsor and told him why I would not be supporting him next election and suggested he retire honorably. Last campaign his wife Lynne did look as if she was under a lot of stress, and I believe his reasons are honorable under the circumstances. The flack both of them have received since they backed the ALP can not have been easy on their families, with death threats etc., but his support of climate change when the science was wrong, is to me just irresponsible and the NBN debacle was a con to get his support. Roll on September for a more responsible government, and it won’t be easy with the international debt hanging over each Australian.

    • mick June 26, 2013 at 9:04 pm #

      “…..his support of climate change when the science was wrong….”

      Sorry but I do not understand how you come to this sort of conclusion other than by being a supporter of the Liberal Party. My understanding is that most (genuine) scientists support that climate change is occurring, with the exception of those who are being paid to say otherwise. The evidences is fairly conclusive and you should look at the graph and read the text at the following link:

      Little argument, really.

      And you then go on to talk about “international debt”. More Tony Abbott rhetoric. All nations have debt and you should compare Australia to other nations. And the question you fail to ask is what should the government of the day have done when the GFC hit? Close the doors and put the nation out of work? The issue is not taking on a small amount of debt, the issue is what projects do you spend money on to keep Australians in a job so that they can continue to pay their bills?

      Sorry bushbunny but you are simply uttering the Tony Abbott misleading rhetoric and it does your case no good.

      • bushbunny June 27, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

        You misunderstand me, I was quoting from experience, I have a degree (two actually) where I studied evolution and the effect climate change had on human and animal adaptations. What stimulates any drastic climate change (not expected spring, summer, autumn and winter but from hot to cold phases ‘ is not the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere or even carbon emissions it is the sun and other gallactic sub atomic particles bombarding our atmosphere (create clouds), volcano eruptions of gases and ash can cool the climate for a while too. The latter plus chemical fertilizers like super phosphate do more harm than good …humans propose and nature deposes…’ I have a diploma in Organic Agricultural production, where the weather and rain fall plus soil types do affect our primary industries and cows and sheep do not control the climate by farting and burping methane! We do too. I owned a small farm years ago. Plus I have three other certificates in horticulture and agricultural production methodology. As soon as I heard that Al Gore and the IPCC got a nobel prize for peace, I nearly spewed. All predictions point to the planet cooling naturally as we are a ICE planet. If you study human evolution, agriculture was only possible when this planet warmed up for the last 10,000 years. Clean energy is being curtailed in Europe, and subsidies cut. Why didn’t our so called scientists and politicians think Australia is any different. Because there are a lot of proper scientists not flim flam Flannery, who are now sueing the IPCC for fraud. Just check out Jo Nova, Bob Carter, and WUWT Anthony Watts award winning scientific sites, and join us.

        • mick June 27, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

          A lot of things to respond to:

          1. First and foremost click on the link below and read the article. Of more interest is the graph which is showing a vertical trend:

          If that is not enough perhaps google ice core samples taken in the antarctic and have a look at how the last 70 years rates on a timescale of 1 to a million years of history. Both of the above are not from obscure scientists like the anti climate change lobby held up be big business and their bought scientists which try their best to deceive rather than discover.

          2. Whilst I appreciate that you are quoting “from experience” I have a similar issue with my own mother who does believe in climate change and states that it is not any hotter this week than last ans then when a season is cold than the preceding ones she state that it is actually getting colder. Of course the culprit is that any increase in global temperature is likely to be linear. This will never be the case and we need to build in much longer time frame and also use statistical analysis to get a consensus. This is where information like the Nasa graph helps. That we actually launch into another ice age is of course not totally without merit as the it is already known that if the planet continues to heat then the Gulf Stream may stop. This is territory unknown but maybe nature’s way of fixing the problem.

          I suggest you look for work done by well funded well respected scientists who are not tied or addicted to money flowing through vested interests as you get what you get. In the meantime please try to stop those damn cows farting.

          • bushbunny June 28, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

            My dear friend, like your dear Mum, I have lived a long time on 4 continents, and I can tell you that carbon trading will not change the weather. (or climate) It is the weather that kills us. When mother nature turns nasty, and she/he does, we are helpless to combat it. Atolls sink, volcanoes and earthquakes occur, meteors crash into our planet, sea shores erode, floods devastate, I have lived during the 1950s when SMOG killed thousands in London. They made it a smoke free zone, and within 10 years swallows and dolphins returned when the atmosphere became healthier. It didn’t change the climate though! The Thames froze up like in Victorian days they held ice fairs, and in 1963 too. Pollution is a city problem not a regional area problem where the agricultural primary industries and mining are based. UHI affect is a problem. Temps rise at night. You go outside the urban areas, even a kilometer and the micro climate changes. So the philosophy that carbon trading will change the weather, (not the climate), is a fools errand. We survive in warm temps, we die when when we can’t produce enough food and our animals die. And that happens when the planet slips into a mini ice age or God forbid, a glacial period. But don’t worry the South Hemisphere will become a popular place to live and survive. Well poor humble cow and sheep, alpaca and co, But that idiot who Tony introduced to support a carbon tax, suggested farmers farm kangaroos rather than sheep or cattle. Didn’t he know that they were undomesticated and marsupials? NASA by the way has been discredited, and I am aware of that graph. But they have to earn their grants and forget what the CERN report has to say. Just Google and find out.

            • mick June 28, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

              Bushbunny (I like the name):

              Carbon trading is a means to an end. From what I understand this is but a mechanism to give renewables a leg up so that cheap dirty forms of energy are put out of business. This is the fate of coal (Barry O’Farrell is sure to have a fit) and even cleaner fuels like gas will I believe only be a medium term solution. So you need to see current strategies for what they are.

              I have to agree with you that current strategies are only held hostage to recalcitrant nations who seek a trading advantage by using the cheaper alternative (coal). This is already changing but only the literal drop in the bucket at this stage. For the game to be fair and the strategies to work everyone needs to participate.

              You make several statements about nature and its power. The whole point about climate change is that the human race has distorted the ability of nature to easily fix itself. By pretending that the huge imbalances created by mankind are nothing more than inconveniences we run the risk that we go past a tipping point of some sort where we cannot stop the inevitable.

              As I said before follow the link below and have a look at the graph on the webpage:


              You know the saying about a picture being worth a thousand words.

          • Kevin Moore June 29, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

            NASA’s arguements say one thing one minute and the opposite the next.

            In the link you gave above it says –
            “Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
            The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century.2Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many JPL-designed instruments, such as AIRS. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response”.


            “A recent NASA report throws the space agency into conflict with its climatologists after new NASA measurements prove that carbon dioxide acts as a coolant in Earth’s atmosphere. NASA’s Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun. The data was collected by Sounding of the Atmosphere using Broadband Emission Radiometry, (or SABER). SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth’s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances thought to be playing a key role in the energy balance of air above our planet’s surface.” Tiny URL:

            NASA – The Report: Solar Storm Dumps Gigawatts into Earth’s Upper Atmosphere Short URL:

            NASA – The Movie. CO2 ScienceCasts: The Surprising Power of a Solar Storm

            See The Two Minute Conservative via Google or: and when you speak ladies will swoon and liberal gentlemen will weep.

            As Tony Abbott just stated on ABC24 – ” The Carbon Tax is socialism wrapped up as environmentalism”.
            CO2 is a “trace gas” in air, insignificant by definition. It absorbs 1/7th as much IR, heat energy, from sunlight as water vapor which has 80 times as many molecules capturing 560 times as much energy in the form of latent heat [ steam ]. Oxygen and Nitrogen absorb 4 times more IR heat energy than CO2. For this we should destroy our economy?

            Control and taxing of carbon [CO2] will place the productive working class at the mercy of the unproductive money power.

            • mick June 30, 2013 at 7:31 pm #

              You will notice that at the bottom of the link there are links from research organisations whose information Nasa uses. From what I can see these are fairly highly respected.

              The graph in the Nasa link tells you that something is badly out of wack and sitting back and saying “she’ll be right” is a one road to turning the planet into an inhabitable tip. Your attempt to create confusion about whether or not CO2 is the culprit defies the fact that nature has been storing carbon for millions of years and mankind has unleashed huge amounts in the space of 200 years, and growing.

              I guess its all too difficult Kevin and better to sit back and do nothing. I suggest that you are wasting your time expecting Tony Abbott (Mr “climate change crap”) to support anything big business does not want.

              Your suggestion that we are going to destroy our economy is the sort of rhetoric we hear from business. The other bull**** which comes from this sector is:

              1. “we need a lower corporate taxes” – from a sector which has been increasing its salaries like they are going out of style for the past 2 decades. And as if this sector does not have dozens of tax deductions which average Australians will NEVER be able to use because they do not earn enough.
              2. “high Australian dollar” –
              3. “we’ll have to sack workers if they get a $9 a week pay rise” – yeah right….bosses can increase their incomes by 10%+ pa and workers cannot get a few crumbs every couple of years.
              4. 457 visas needed because “we cannot get Australian workers” – what they mean is that they want cheap labour and will not employ Australians.

              Personally I am sick and tired of this self interest group which does not give a damn about the environment or average Australians . The track record pretty much tells the tale. If the introduction of a carbon tax is really of concern then simply introduce a CARBON IMPORT DUTY levied on nations which seek to make hay at our expense. Don’t expect Tony Abbott to do this though. That would require putting the nation ahead of his political masters and also a lot of bal**.

              If you step back and take a pragmatic view you may just see that terminating carbon polluters from their trade is not as difficult as it seems and the results will be a blessing to all nations. Personally, the issue we all really need to confront is POPULATION INCREASE. Oh yes…..population increase is another big business initiative because it is widely accepted amongst big business leaders that a big population means a bigger marketplace, so more profits will be forthcoming. I suggest that the low intelligence of this sector is again there for all to see as Australia is an importer of almost everything and a big population will result in two things happening. Firstly our mineral exports are not expandable forever and they also depend on changing demand so essentially FIXED. Secondly, Australia imports almost everything and we need to pay for imports with income earned from exports. If the tap dries up then we all have to earn less. This is the recipe for poverty and I suggest we all watch what is currently happening with our mineral exports as demand is decreasing and prices are going down fast.

              I guess we will have to agree to disagree Kevin. I give a damn about the future and as much as I feel uncomfortable none of us can stick our heads in the sand because it is all too difficult.

            • Kevin Moore July 1, 2013 at 3:13 pm #


              Obama vows that anyone who builds a coal fired power station will be sent bankrupt –

              “……..The Heritage Foundation commented that according to Obama’s plan to phase out coal, the cost of natural gas would be driven up by 42% by 2030.

              In fact, the Controlling Elite have paved the way for this move toward “greener energy” by purchasing carbon credits to offset their lavish lifestyles and earnings derived from greenhouse emitting sources of energy.

              Americans are broke , living paycheck-to-paycheck with virtually no savings. The expectation for an exorbitant increase in energy bills will send most into dire situations.

              In 2012, a study was released by the Met Office Hadley Center, showing the there has been no significant warming in global temperatures since 1997.

              And this is the remarks from alarmists who want to believe that human activity is the sole reason for global changes in the earth’s weather patterns. It suits their agenda to maintain this ideology within the general public, despite empirical scientific data streaming in to their contrary.

              The lie of more extreme weather in recent years due to man-made climate change has been mostly a right of ignorance by the general public who believe what they are told instead of looking at the actual data collected over time which shows that this is not the case”.

            • Kevin Moore July 1, 2013 at 3:20 pm #


              I’m still wondering when you mention carbon whether you mean soot or gas [ C or CO2]?

      • Kevin Moore June 27, 2013 at 7:17 pm #

        Who are the genuine scientists being paid to contradict global warming and who is paying them?

        “My understanding is that most (genuine) scientists support that climate change is occurring, with the exception of those who are being paid to say otherwise”.

        • michael jakob June 27, 2013 at 10:38 pm #


          Nice to have you come in. I always enjoy your input.

          I look at the credibility of climate change science using a number of markers:

          1. research and peer reviews 2. credibility of the organisation(s) conducting the research 3. conflicts of interest and vested interests which may distort research

          Whilst there is a huge amount of material on the web making all sorts of claims I try to stay away from the ‘noise’. I am aware that this issue can easily be hijacked (one way or the other) and that those whose business may be impacted by global warming will fight tooth and nail to stop the story from getting out, similar to the cigarette industry which fought against those who claimed that cigarettes caused cancers and a whole range of other problems for smokers; similar to the fossil fuel industry which wants to continue on with their dirty industries; similar to James Hardie which continued to mine asbestos in Australia for many years (10?) after it was banned in the US because it was well recognised that the stuff was deadly.

          Evidence compiled by NASA makes for interesting reading, even for skeptics:

          You should also have a look at the following link. This is an interesting article which actually names a few scientists and the industries provided them with research money so that the conclusion that there is no global warming was reached. Loo for the section named “Climate Cover Up”.

          Intelligent human beings need to stand back and ask whether:

          7 billion people on the planet have no effectcutting down much of the world’s forests have no effectputting more CO2 into the atmosphere which natural systems cannot remove have no effectupsetting the eco-systems of the world with only very few species left standing has no effect My take is that the planet may have changed since mankind put his first foot print in the sand but natural systems are self fixing to a certain degree. But there has to be a tipping point where the elastic limit of the planet means that we have gone too far. Who knows what that is? I don’t. But I can see the pieces beginning to line up and no amount of denial can make it go away. The question is what are we going to do about it? Nothing as wanted by those who are preserving their wealth? Or act on the side of common sense (SURVIVAL)? I am in the latter camp.

          Hope I have provided you with food for thought and , hopefully, a few names as you requested Kevin. This issue is worthy of much more discussion and I am sure (positive) that my convictions may not convince true disbelievers. This is where the internet is a gem and we can all sift over those sites worth the time of day. But remember that many have little value.


          Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:01:53 +0000 To:

      • Kevin Moore June 28, 2013 at 9:33 am #

        The infallible pope has declared that your expressed fears of global warming is “scare-mongering”.

        “………Pope Benedict XVI has launched a surprise attack on climate change prophets of doom, warning them that any solutions to global warming must be based on firm evidence and not on dubious ideology.
        The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.
        The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement”.

        • mick June 28, 2013 at 9:29 pm #


          I am disappointed. The popes you allude to also in the past stated that the world was flat and these are the same men who executed scientists whose work did not agree with the teachings of the church. Are you not aware of the atrocities which popes have been associated with over the centuries and the ongoing issues currently before the domestic media every other night? And you ask me to accept anything a pope might decree?

          I cannot say that my view of the world is correct. I can but say that having looked at the evidence available to me on all probabilities it looks bad, really bad. Some of the studies have been done in the context of half a million years make and make a disturbing statement: that the climate is doing something which it has not done before. if that does not disturb each one of us then we must be ostriches with our heads stuck deep in the sand so that we do not have to confront that which is not palatable to us. Sad!!

  2. mick June 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

    It does look ominously like the change in the state government where all the rats who had wasted so much public money and achieved little more to pay an army of report writers to do this suddenly jumped ship and took the easy way out. And lets not forget the very generous pension which cut in immediately.

    I held the view before the election which saw federal Labor take power that Independents would have money thrown at them for their support. Whilst I have not received a list of public works projects allocated to Oakshott’s and Windsor’s electorates I imagine that the list must have been quite impressive.

    Although the election ain’t over until its over it does look like Abbott is going to get in. Whilst I am betting that there will be a huge amount of public money head straight into the bank accounts of supporters and the rich (usually one in the same) it will be interesting to see if Abbott does anything about the festering sores which Labor refuses to address.

    • bushbunny June 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

      State government?

      • mick June 27, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

        The reference was to the NSW State Government elections in 2011. The sitting Labor MPs jumped ship because they knew they were going to be slaughtered. The easy way out for the biggest bunch of misfits politics has seen for a long time.

  3. Richo June 26, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    Ultimate slap in the face for the people of Lynne and New England. Wouldn’t be suprised if they cahsed out of town. Maybe they’ll join the Julia in the charf bag???

    • bushbunny June 27, 2013 at 1:27 pm #

      No Richo, we are relieved. Tony and Rob backed the wrong horse. But as one poster suggested in the Armidale Express, he was disappointed as the electorate now has no chance to register their dissatisfaction with Tony through the 2 pp voting system. With Barnaby Joyce and Adam Marshall now at the helm with Barnaby the shadow Minister for Regional Development we will be satisfied. Albanese the Minister for Regional Development, does he know which end of a cow milk comes from. Probably methane though.

    • mick June 27, 2013 at 1:44 pm #

      “Maybe they’ll join the Julia in the charf bag???”


      Your comments are straight from the Alan Jones stable of hateful vocabulary. By the way: chaf not ‘charf’?

      Perhaps spend a bit more time listing all the money which the Independents brought in to their respective electorates rather than slanging off in the manner above. Joining the sour grape swill from the liberal side of politics does nobody any good and only lowers the standard further of what is already a discredited profession (politics). As I stated in my blog above ‘play the ball, not the man’……….that does not include distorting and misrepresenting the truth by the way, it means making factual statements in good faith, not abuse and hate generating rhetoric.

      • Richo June 28, 2013 at 10:54 am #


        They would have got the same amount of money from Abbott. the Libs are just as bad as Labor when it comes to pork barrelling. If they did such a great job, why are neither standing for re-election?

        The truth they betrayed their electorate, and don’t even have the guts to face accountability or even argue their case.

        By the way, the chaff bag comment (it is two fs so we were both wrong) was deliberately made in jest. Lighten up, I’m sick of the holier than though PC police finger waving and trying to stifle free speech in this country.

        • mick June 28, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

          You’ll find that I always champion free speech. We are here discussing issues and perspectives and this is the epitome of free speech. Was it not Benjamin Disraeli (spelling?) who was quoted as saying “I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.

          Just remember that responsibility, fairness and what is good for the country (patriotism?) are also important.

          I am not at all sure why the Independents are not running. I have not checked into what any of them negotiated for their electorates but I would be surprised if this was the same as other electorates. Perhaps somebody on this blog can fill in the gaps.

  4. gusgrunt June 26, 2013 at 5:53 pm #

    I do not know who was pushing our illustrious independants buttons but the result was another burdensome tax on Australians.
    The benefactors of the carbon tax are the international bankers and the ‘money outa nothing’ traders who could not work in an iron lung their only skill being amorality.
    A Rothschild, some time ago, had a quiet word in our unelected Gillard’s ear that changed her position on CO2….??
    Democracy is absolutely amazing when corporations have the final vote…….. Mussolini tagged it as ‘Fascism’…. he should know!
    A Rothschild bank was set up around a decade ago to cater for ‘ Carbon Trading’ that then was as invisible as it is now….. amazing, again, how democracy keeps pulling these rabbits outa the hat!

    • mick June 27, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

      Whilst I agree with some of your comments I need to remind you that the Greens are the Party which has driven the carbon tax. Whilst I personally believe that industry assistance is a better mechanism than a carbon trading scheme I cannot divorce my own existence from that of the rest of humanity and I recognise that somebody has to start. The hands in the pockets approach will only result in the worst of all outcomes and even people with your views on climate change will be outraged once the game is over and look for somebody to blame. Maybe start now rather than blame later.

      In regard to Independents I suggest that whilst there may be a few negatives the positives are far greater:

      1. No political masters other than voters. The Liberals are controlled by big business and Labor is controlled by the unions. Both are bad.
      2. Able to back sensible policies without needing to resort to the gutter politics of late.
      3. Better able to represent their electorates as they are not just puppets.
      4. More efficient.

      By far the biggest problem I see is the polarisation of politics with the 2 party system smothering genuine debate much of the time and vested interests being represented. Whilst the imbalance could be fixed by introducing a cap on election spending (including free advertising from vested interests) per candidate this will not happen any time soon because when you own the game there is no need to change the rules irrespective of whether or not the rules are fair.

      It may be easy to pin the tail on the donkey (sic) but making aspersions which border on hateful should not be a part of the Australian political agenda. This is what I most dislike about shock jocks like Alan Jones and the followers who trot out his hateful rhetoric. Remember the old saying about ‘playing the ball, not the man’. I have to occasionally confront that one in the heat of battle too.

      • Kevin Moore June 27, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

        You say –
        “Whilst I personally believe that industry assistance is a better mechanism than a carbon trading scheme I cannot divorce my own existence from that of the rest of humanity and I recognise that somebody has to start”.

        When speaking of a carbon trading scheme are you refering to C or CO2 ?
        How many carbon credits and at what price do they have to be to lower the temperature by one degree and how is any effect of pricing carbon measured globally?

        • mick June 27, 2013 at 10:53 pm #


          I think that you are playing politics.

          I need to make the point that I cannot provide the exact formula you ask for. Indeed I do not really think that this is what you want anyway but I direct you to Google where I am sure they will be freely available. As the bible says: “seek and you shall find”. Words of wisdom.

          If you have indeed missed the point I was making it is that as a species we can either carry on as though there is no tomorrow (bugger the descendants!!) or we can elect make a start to change the future. I an fortunate enough that past tenants of the planet passed on something which has given me great joy and I for one feel compelled to not pass the planet on as an unusable piece of trash. That will be the result of denial.

          A price on carbon, whatever that is, should make it more expensive to pollute. This will give renewable technologies a foot up and spawn a whole new industry which will go on for centuries.

          • Kevin Moore June 29, 2013 at 10:14 am #

            You say –
            “If you have indeed missed the point I was making it is that as a species we can either carry on as though there is no tomorrow (bugger the descendants!!) or we can elect make a start to change the future”.
            The Labour Parties phasing out of coal will see a return to the Dark Ages.
            Only if the Earth was flat would you get 24/7 solar electricity generation. Only if the wind was a consistent speed sufficient to drive wind turbines 24/7 would you get a reliable electricity supply.

            Click to access one-year-on.pdf

            Caution: Contents may affend
            Comment by Tony of Oz @
            “….Why do I even bother?
            What a load of bovine waste. More spin than ‘Dainty’ Ironmonger.
            They proudly proclaim that Renewables provide almost 12.8% of all power being consumed, and the chart they provide shows something the average person cannot work out without some electrical background.
            Of that 12.8%, Hydro is 9.8% of that, Wind makes up 2.4% of that, and all solar (including rooftop solar) makes up 0.6% of that.
            They say that they want to get that renewables figure up to 20% by 2020.
            OK then, let’s ballpark.
            You guess how much new hydro will be approved, and zero would be a very close number.
            So that means the Hydro part of the proposed 20% total drops from 9.8% to 6.1%.
            Solar will only ever hover around the 1% mark.
            So that means the bulk of it will have to come from wind, then that means a construction of around 12,000MW of NEW wind power, or a further 4000 wind towers to add to the existing 1200 or so, and that’s with each huge tower topped by a 3MW Nacelle/Generator.
            So, 12,000MW, and using the proposed King Island plant (500MW for $2 Billion) there’s a cost of $48 Billion, and in 7 years there’s $7 Billion a year, each year from now on, and going on current formulas, with the Government throwing in half the up front cost, there’s $3.5 Billion a year.
            That’s not the end of it though, because they’ll have to keep going because these things only have a hoped for life span of 25 years, and 15 would be closer to the truth, so that level of construction would need to continue.
            Can you see even constant Labor Governments approving that much each year for wind plants?
            Even if they did, I can’t see private companies engaging on construction of that level.
            Considering there’s a three year time frame between the original proposal and construction starting, that time frame now halves. So, let’s start immediately, and that there are now three extra NEW plants ready to go to the approvals process, on top of the ones we already know about now, so that now comes in at around 3 to 4 new wind plants a year, so with that 3 year approvals process, we now need 6 to 8 new plants a year from 2016 to 2020, finished, online and delivering power, just to reach their 20% target by 2020.
            Can you see how ridiculous this all now becomes. There is no way that sort of plan can actually happen, and that’s provided they get companies to actually do something on this scale.
            Only the most ardent wind believers could think this can happen.
            It won’t.
            Meanwhile, what do those wind plant supporters do when this happens.
            Yesterday afternoon, and evening. just as the Peak power consumption started, and power consumption rose to 28,000MW, those existing 1200 wind towers already here in Australia supplied 100MW, 0.35% of all power being consumed, and as that evening Peak continued for the next 6 hours, wind power delivery dropped even further. Of those 1200 towers, barely 25 to 30 were actually turning during that 6 hour period.
            You can have all the wind towers you like, but if the wind doesn’t blow you’ve got nothing, except the old reliables that is.
            Wind Performance Thursday 27Jun2013”

            • Kevin Moore June 29, 2013 at 11:00 am #


              In an insane attempt to prevent CO2-induced bad weather, World Bank acts to make poor people’s energy more expensive
              World Bank plans to limit financing of coal-fired power plants: ‘The World Bank plans to limit the financing it provides for coal-fired power plants to “rare circumstances” as part of the global financial body’s efforts to address the impact of climate change’
              Obama ban on foreign aid for coal plants would leave poor without energy

            • mick June 30, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

              Are you serious Kevin?

              Doing NOTHING is what our business leaders want. The almighty dollar even trumps survival for these guys. Is it any wonder that Einstein stated: “there are only two things infinite, the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the universe”.

              It distresses me that those with vested interests don’t give a tinkers and that voters cannot see the forest for the trees and are easily led. Personally, I don’t mind if some of us don’t care about their own descendants but please leave mine alone. I give a damn!!

  5. Kevin Moore June 27, 2013 at 10:54 am #

    Everything in this world has been given to us by God for free, but some who say that they are Gods Chosen Elite – the immoral minority, have taken ownerhip of the worlds resources and are charging with usury the right of everyone else to their use.

    “Tesla awarded us with access to immaculate energy of the Cosmos”.
    “…..Nikola Tesla was born on July 10, 1856, in what is now Croatia.
    About three years later, August 8, 1859, Colonel Edwin Drake drilled the world’s first successful oil well near Titusville, Pennsylvania.
    The hydrocarbon age is a catastrophe fouling ever more profoundly the future of life on Earth. The PSQ’s energy monopoly has led to extreme consolidation of wealth into what George Bush the 1st, spokesman extraordinaire for inhumanity, calls, “…higher, tighter and righter hands.” In humanitarian terms, that translates into Satanic hands. Fossil fuels’ empowerment of psychopaths plagues humanity with perpetual war, genocide, debt slavery, vast poverty, environmental devastation and pillaging of the future. Fossil fuels are essential to the PSQ’s inhuman domination of humanity.
    Tesla could cure the cancer of fossil fuels metastasizing through every aspect of life on Earth. Replacing the hydrocarbon age with the Aether age might mean humanity’s deliverance, a nightmare for the PSQ.
    Rothschild bankstering outlined the PSQ’s hydrocarbon ascent as continuation of an ancient plan. Today only three of the world’s “sovereign” nations remain free of Rothschild-controlled central banking: Cuba, Iran, North Korea. America’s strain of Rothschild infection is called the Federal Reserve System, an insidious disease apparently fatal.
    Banks excel at war. Some might say that in war there are no winners, only losers. That is overwhelmingly true, if you don’t count banks. War is not the meat and potatoes of banks, more like the meat and bread: finance industrial military complexes, all sides; concoct the politics to pit nation against nation and kill each other amid banker-maneuvered conflicts; finance all combatants, then butter bread with reconstruction…repeat cycle….
    Monopolies on fossil energy, money and war…such is the tripod supporting imminent and absolute PSQ ownership of planet Earth. Every grain of sand, drop of water, every breath. With legs so solid on the PSQ’s three-legged stool of tyranny, the PSQ is solidly enthroned.
    But…if humanity can take out one leg we may have a chance at crashing the PSQ’s tripod. For a leader we have arguably the greatest human ever born: Nikola Tesla. He put Aether in our hands. If humanity can elevate into freely developing energy from Aether, thereby breaking the energy leg, we might fall the PSQ’s stool…….”

    • gusgrunt June 27, 2013 at 4:29 pm #

      Hi Kevin…. I agree totally with your excellent post.
      On the human part it is the theft of our energy through the control of our money that has assisted these bankers to create their massive wealth and hence orchestrate wars to further divide the human race.
      I have asked some of our political folk why our government does not coin our money usury free as entitled to do but always receive evasive replies.
      Our Pollies swear their allegiance to the Crown, not to the people and the Crown is now Rothschild controlled by bloodline and wealth.
      Greg Hallett’s site is very controversial on this topic and not for the royalist’s……

  6. bushbunny June 28, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    Carbon trading has done nothing to cut carbon emissions in the EU. This feel gud towards third world countries is pathetic. We give aid. I object to Australia agreeing to give the United Nations 660 million dollars p.a for their climate fund which will not be monitored or controlled. When the science by many credible scientists who are not being paid to supply the government with manipulated data are ignored and those give false info to qualify their large grants and from their info we are being taxed for it. Ignorance of what drives the climate and weather is being taken advantage of. Scare mongering is right, alarmists are misinformed and those who vote for sustainability are correct, what ever form that will take. But CO2 nor carbon emissions change the climate or weather. Oh, smog is caused of cause by SO2 plus water. James Hansen who worked for NASA once, is now saying clean energy is inefficient and expensive and we should go nuclear. He also was the scientific adviser to Al Gore! We should put that 660 million into increasing dams, river levies, sea walls, and fire breaks. Earthquake and cyclone building regulations in cyclonic areas. When there are high tides, usually on a full moon, sea water runs down the gutters on Cairns sea front. Great, what happens during a tsunami or very bad storm. I am losing patience. And will not vote for anyone who supports it either. Now Rudd is saying he will do something to curtail the carbon tax, and quite honestly he can’t do anything until the next government is elected, and it is all smoke and mirrors and hoping to win back some votes. He might of course, but not the government.

    • mick June 30, 2013 at 6:42 pm #

      So would you agree to the Abbott DIRECT ACTION? That way at least we are working towards the future rather than the past.

      • bushbunny July 2, 2013 at 1:50 pm #

        Yes, with reservations, I got an email from Julie Bishop regarding the CERN report,(clouds that are seeded by galactic sub atomic particles, effect surface temperatures, when the sun has spots these deflect these particles from Earth and less cloud cover) and she put in it, they were committed to cutting down Greenhouse gases. Well greenhouse gases are not the problem, and there’s no way CO2 is either, as it is only 3 % of the overall greenhouse gases component. Terminology is a problem. Actually most of our air (atmosphere) is nitrogen78%, oxygen 21 %, CO2 3%, and trace gases like methane, nitrous oxide 1 per cent. Carbon or heavy particles create pollution. But you know, the water they use to wash coal, is one of the best organic fertilizers you can get. That’s why frost does not form when there is a cloud cover. And deserts have hot temps during the day, and cold temps during the night as clouds do trap warmth or shade it from heat during the day. I’ve just been awarded my post graduate degree in arts today, and am very happy. My BA was a major in archaeology and palaeoanthropology, but I did a unit titled ‘The earth in crisis?’ it did explain to me anyway, dams, (Aswan in Egypt) cutting down large tracks of forests, like in the Amazon region, can affect precipitation patterns. And pollution in cities was rife like in Bangkok, and how they were trying to counter these problems. I’m for sustainability particularly our agricultural land use. Another time I’ll explain. Still rejoicing my post graduate award.

        • bushbunny July 2, 2013 at 1:52 pm #

          Sorry Nitrogen 75%, if I remember rightly.

        • The Blissful Ignoramus July 2, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

          Congratulations BB 🙂

  7. Kevin Moore June 30, 2013 at 11:51 am #

    This is the situation in Australia as well –

    “……..It is said that becoming a Friend of Israel is a necessary stepping-stone to high office. Consequently fans of Israel are embedded at all levels in the fabric of British political life and at the heart of the Government.

    When a group of concerned academics wrote to the Committee on Standards in Public Life complaining about Israel’s “deep penetration”, they were told it was not something the committee could investigate. A closer look revealed that some members of the committee had close links with Friends of Israel.

    How do these Israeli flag wavers think it looks, standing shoulder to shoulder with religious fanatics and psychopaths who horribly persecute the Christian and Muslim communities of the Holy Land? It is especially offensive to see them endorsing a pseudo democracy that dishes out thuggish treatment even to children who, says the UN, are arrested by Israeli military and police and systematically subjected to degrading treatment, and often tortured. Read the report and weep –

    • bushbunny July 2, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

      I had Jewish friends and my ex flew over the middle east. It is such a small strip of land, 150 miles long bordering on the Mediteranean and at its widest 30 -50 miles, mostly desert too. Surrounded by Arab countries, and in 1948 when they got a mandate to rule parts of it, Jerusleum was a bone of contention. Part in Jordan and the other in Israel. It was hardest on the pastoralist Arabs, who travelled between Jordon and Palestine with their flocks, and then they closed the borders and they were put in detention camps near Jericho.However, the Arabs are part to blame telling Arabs to leave Israel and then complain when they weren’t allowed back or caused trouble internally. You don’t mess with the Israelis, and any violence is met with a crackdown. Considering the size of the land they are fighting over, it would be like a war going on between Armidale and Willow Tree. Not far to drive a tank, eh. Or send a rocket.

      • Kevin Moore July 2, 2013 at 9:05 pm #


        Read this UN report on the horrendous Israeli treatment meted out to Palestinian children and your perspective may change,

        • bushbunny July 3, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

          What about that metered out to Jewish Israelis. And this has been going on for decades since 1948. I agree I do have some sympathy for Palestinians. But my late Jewish friend, lived in Jerusleum since 1965, we went to school together in UK, she was dux of the school. We reconnected just a few years before her death from a rare lung cancer. Not all Palestinians are Muslim, there are quite a few Christians. She told me about life in Israel, a very sardonic humor too, typically Jewish mother style, and very well educated also. From her perspective putting up plastic in anti-gas sealed room during the Iraq war start, she said easy to put up but awful to take down…On Saturdays (Sabbath) depending on the political climate, they avoid the orthodox Jewish sector and go via the Palestinian and on their water front, there are attacks by Palestinian youths on Jewish women. Arms checks before you enter any cafe and restaurant.
          Her political opinion was there are fanatical Jews too who don’t want a reconciliation at all, but the Liberal Jews do, obviously, work to get some semblance of security and peace. But the Palestinians are factional too, and can’t organize themselves. Terrorism is rife there, and the Israelis have every right to
          protect themselves. If we lived in such an volatile environment, can you blame them? And what is the solution other than side with Jewish Israelis, it gives a message to those who wish to cause conflict and mayhem in such a small region of the middle east. The Israelis have had decades to work out protection for themselves under immense pressure, and one does not mess with Mossad or the Israeli forces, or if you do – at your peril.

          • Kevin Moore July 3, 2013 at 6:37 pm #

            The Mossads motto is “By deception we make war”.
            By what right do your friends call themselves Jews and Gods Chosen People?
            The Scripture has harsh words for those who say they are Jews in the flesh.
            Judah married and had sons to the daughter of foreign gods——a Canaanite woman. Malachi, chapter 3 & 2:11., Genesis 38:1-10

            Malachi, chapters 3 & 2:11, “Judah has done an abomination in Israel and in Jerusalem for he has profaned the Sacred Jehovah whom he loves and married a daughter of foreign gods.
            Jehovah will cut off the man who does it………….”

            See, “The Book of Adam and Eve”. S.C.Malan., quote – chapter 4,

            “Then after this Judah took to himself a wife whose name was habwadiya, that means, “house-wife” but in the law her name is Sewa. She was of a Caananitish family, and Jacobs heart suffered much on that account;and he said to Judah his son who had married that wife, “The God of Abraham and of Isaac will not allow the seed of this Canaanitish woman to mingle with my seed.”……….

            “……….Then Judah married his son Onan to Tamar, saying, “He shall raise seed unto thy brother.” But him also did God kill because of his evil deeds; on account of Jacobs curse, “That no Canaanitish seed should mingle with his own.” So God would not let any of it mingle with that of Jacob the righteous. Therefore did Tamar go to Judah her father-in-law, who had intercourse with her, not knowing she was his sons wife; and she bare unto him twins, Pharez and Zarah.” [Genesis 38:6-30]
            ……. Chapter 6, ………… “After this, there began to issue a race from Naason [a descendent of Pharez], who was great among the sons of Judah; and from him began a kingdom and a priesthood, and the Jews became celebrated through him…….” Gen. 38:11-30, Ruth 4:18-22
            No blemished Judah blood [Judah/Canaanite] was allowed in the line chosen to antecede Jesus Christ.
            Jesus Christ is the end of the pure blood Chosen line — Judah/Tamar, Pharez, Naason, David — Ruth, Mary that was chosen to antecede Him. Christ has not fathered physical descendents, therefore there is no pure blood – physical line of Judah that can be said to have descended from Christ. Those who hate Christianity and call themselves Gods Chosen People in the flesh are liars – those of all nations who call on the name of Christ are of Judah in Spirit. Jesus Christ – the King of the Jews. Gen. 38:11-30, Ruth 4:18-22
            Jesus has no physical descendents. How can those whom God has cut off , are of mixed blood, hate Christ and are uncircumcised of heart now claim to be “Jews” and “Gods Chosen People”? Gen. 38:11-30, Ruth 4:18-22, Romans 2:28-29, Phiippians 3:2-3, Gal. 6:7.
            Romans 2:28-29 “……….For he is not a Jew that is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in the flesh; but he is a Jew that is one inwardly and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter; of whom the praise is not from men, but from God.”

            Revelation 3:9,”Behold, I give out of the synagogue of Satan those saying themselves to be Jews, and they are not, but they lie,. Behold, I will make them them come and bow down before your feet, and they shall know that I loved you.”
            Genesis 17:8 ………”And I will give to you and to your seed after you the land of your sojourning, all the land of Canaan for an everlastin possession….”

            Arabs are Semites – Genesis chapter 21.
            Palestine — Shems Allotment — Taken by Force by Canaan, a Son of Shems’ Brother, Ham

            “But whereas Ham, Cush and Mitaraim took possession of the land fallen to them by lot, Canaan took with violence, possession of the land he coveted, along the sea-shore. His brothers remonstrated with him, and told him he would be accursed for having taken a lot that belonged to Shem and had not fallen to him. But he would not hearken to them; and dwelt in the land from Hamath to Egypt.” [Ibid. pp.44, 45.] For more precise details see:- “The Book of Jubilees.” Rev George H. Schodde’s translation from the Ethiopic —- Ch.8…… “This portion came by lot for Shem and his sons that, they should possess it for ever unto his generations for evermore.”

            A Semite is anyone who has descended from Shem, one of Noahs three sons. Shem is the ancestor of Abram/Abraham. Judah is a descendent of Shem and is thus a descendent of “Abram” to whom promises were made [Genesis 15:18-20] and Shems’ seeds include the other tribes of Israel and the Ishmaelites—-the Arabs. Genesis 17:7-8. Abram later became Abraham [Genesis 17:5-6] ——– “But the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his Seed — it does not say, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, “And to thy Seed”, which is Christ” Galatians 3:16., Genesis Ch.17., 21:12 [The actual origin of the term “anti-Semitism” is credited to German author Wilhelm Marr who wrote, in 1879, a book entitled “The Victory of Judaism Over Germany.” ]
            Isaiah 9:15 “The elder and the lifted of face, he is the head; and the prophet teaching lying, he is the tail.”
            Revelation 9:19 “For their authority is in their mouth and in their tails, for the tails of them have heads like snakes and together being violate law.” [a literal translation]
            From “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” excerpt from Protocol 3. “Today I tell you that our goal is only a few steps off. There remains a small space to cross and the whole long path we have trodden is ready now to close its cycle of the Symbolic Snake, by which we symbolise our people.”

    • gusgrunt July 2, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

      Hullo Kevin,
      It seems that being a friend of Israel today has a historical ring.
      In light of our very sad political circus the ‘bearers of good tidings’, Abbott and Rudd, are admirers of Israel.
      That is fine as we still have some threads of individual freedom hanging in there but, I consider, the pretender to the throne, Abbott, stepped over my line in the sand and declared that Australians are Israelis.
      I took the quote out of context but I oft get confused with context.

      The Australian Jewish News 16/3/2012.
      Appearing as a special guest as part of Central’s ongoing “Studio Central” youth program, Abbott spoke about the contribution Jewish Australians have made to our nation, before noting the similarities between Australia and Israel.
      “In so many ways, [Israel is] a country so much like Australia, a liberal, pluralist democracy,” he said, “A beacon of freedom and hope in a part of the world which has so little freedom and hope.”
      He added that Australians “can hardly begin to comprehend” the existential threat Israelis live under. “It is so easy for us in Australia to get moral qualms, if you like, when we read about Israeli actions in – on the West Bank for instance – or Israeli involvement in Lebanon.”
      “And yet, we are not threatened in the way Israel was and is, and if we were threatened in the way Israel was and is, I am sure that we would take actions just as strong in our own defence.
      “When Israel is fighting for its very life, well, as far as I’m concerned, Australians are Israelis. We are all Israelis in”those circumstances.”… Gus

      • Kevin Moore July 2, 2013 at 8:47 pm #


        You may change your view if read Roger Garaudy’s “The Founding Myths of Israeli politics”

        • gusgrunt July 3, 2013 at 10:24 am #

          You have mis-understood my post…… I do not support Zionist Israel.
          I do not support AIAC which is merely another AIPAC that now controls the US including Australia.
          With Abbott pledging a further $50 million to australian Jewish security and in light of the recent events it seems to me that the average australian needs the security boost instead of the wealthy and political Zionist’s.
          I will read and add Roger Garaudy’s book to my ever expanding library section on ‘The Jewish Question’.

        • bushbunny July 3, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

          Kevin I respect your point of view, but it is true what Abbot said, remember the ‘Dunera boys’ those German Jews in England were sent to Australia during WWII. It would seem they were seen by Britain as a security risk. I traveled on the Dunera back in 1960 on my way to Cyprus, very old troop ship. Horses for courses, we can not imagine what life was like in Europe during the Holocaust, and Britain trying to stop Jewish refugees entering Palestine after the war ended. My ex boss was a Dutch Jew, he escaped from one of the cattle trains on his way through Germany and made his way to France. Came to Australia and started a printing company and private employment agency ‘Inventum’. He always thought I looked Jewish believe it or not. (Big boobs and dark looks perhaps). Mind you I do believe sometimes, Hollywood particularly, tends to dwell on the Holocaust, but you can understand why? Christianity and Islam can blame themselves, the Jews have been subjected to pogroms etc., in England and other European countries for centuries. They are now making their last stand in Israel. Shalom. (peace)

  8. Kevin Moore July 1, 2013 at 7:41 am #

    “Americans are turning gay” says, and Kevin Rudd intends to make it normal for Australians to be the same.

    From Russia’s Pravda news –

    “…………The US is broke and Russia is the world’s largest oil producer with a growing economy. Russia is not backing down and they have China to back them up. Who will back the US? Tiny Britain? Americans are turning gay and Russian men are looking more like the Klitschko brothers. The US is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah while Christianity triumphs in Russia. No ACLU in Russia suing Christians to be sure. The largest country in the world shows only contempt at the US Bomb & Missile Diplomacy.

    The western media will warp the truth as usual. They will not show the entire video of Putin and Obama fearing that Americans will see things as they are and wise up. No mention of Christianity under attack in the Middle East and North Africa. Loud music and commanding voices will tell American citizens what to think and who to hate as they become mesmerized by their idiot boxes. Little is mentioned of Christians or priests murdered in Syria or the Christian Bishops that were kidnapped. Again the western cry is here reiterated, “What difference does it make! Assad must go!” Amerikan Demonocracy foaming at the mouth rabid with hate.

    Standing firmly against these maniacs is Putin with Christian Russia solidly behind him. There has been finger pointing between the West and Russia but the political rhetoric is ignored by President Vladimir Putin as he calmly directs stability in the Middle East. Obama said, “By working together we… also help lead the world to a better place.” We know your record Obama and it stinks of death. The only leading going on is Vladimir leading you by the nose. Putin made sure there will be a follow up to this meeting in Geneva. Lest O’bomber forgets”.

    • bushbunny July 3, 2013 at 12:43 pm #

      What and the Russians are without sin. They are a load of vodka drinking, corrupt, untrustworthy, socialists come corrupt capitalists. My ex went to Russia in the early 1990s as part of his job as head pilot of the 747 fleet, and ex RAF officer on the Nuclear force. He reckoned, in St.Petersberg, it was the poorest city he had visited, instead of whole cabbages they had leaves only, spotty apples and small potatoes. Frightening when you consider they had nuclear weapons. At 9 am he met his counter part and asked if he would like a drink, he thought coffee or tea, but out came the Vodka bottle. No time for Russians or trust them at least. And that goes for the Americans too quite honestly, although I would rather them on our side that against us.

      • The Blissful Ignoramus July 3, 2013 at 6:01 pm #

        FWIW bb, I’ve spent some time in Russia and the former USSR, and know a number of Russian folk very well. While not excusing any of the things you mention (and fwiw we beer-swilling Aussies can hardly criticise anyone else’s drinking problems!), I think it important for we “westerners” to try to understand and (at least) empathise a little, given the long and tragic history of the Russian people; this affects the very soul of their nation. We in Australia have no remote comprehension of what that people have suffered, ongoing, since the Russian Revolution.

        Also fwiw, it should be remembered that the time your ex was in RU was immediately post-glasnost and in the midst of the collapse of the USSR … simply more of the immensely turbulent and incredibly difficult times for all there.

        I’ve little doubt that if I and my loved ones had suffered (for generations) all that the Russian people have suffered, I’d have a serious drinking problem too.

        • bushbunny July 10, 2013 at 3:09 pm #

          Yes I agree, but what about the British people too. Ozzies complain about the Poms and colonisation from 1788 – 1860s, and the horrible things that happened here. But it was just as bad in England. The Robert Peel coppers, had control of London, but everywhere else in England, and Scotland, Ireland etc., was woeful. People were committing minor crimes to get transported to Australia, that’s how bad it was.

          Russia, it’s a very big place, and remember the Russians killed more of their own people not just during the 1917 revolution but also during the Stalin years, than the German’s did. It’s their establishment not the peasants that are at fault. I know their history well, and Lenin was a bastard too, and a plague on both their houses. They haven’t changed much, so Putin and Rudd should get on well when he visits Russia later this year.

          • The Blissful Ignoramus July 10, 2013 at 4:04 pm #

            “remember the Russians killed more of their own people not just during the 1917 revolution but also during the Stalin years, than the German’s did”

            It’s important to note exactly which “Russians” did the killing. A very worthy topic of research in itself.

        • bushbunny July 10, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

          Blissful, did you note my ex’s back ground. Ex RAF captain on Vulcans from 1963- 1965, after which he joined QANTAS. I lived in London and worked there from 1958-60. There was that famous summit between Eisenhower, Macmillan with Kruschev. We feared a nuclear war, and we Poms were terrified of it happening. I worked for the Bank of England, and we were given survival courses. I remember them well, 1/2 mile radius of an ATOM bomb ground zero (No hydrogen bombs then) forget it you’d be vaporized. (Bank of England is dead centre of the city of London?) don’t look at the flash, look for the shadow of it and hide there, covering yourself with wool preferably? Hoping the explosion doesn’t wipe you away. If within 50 miles, stay indoors, run the bath to provide adequate water, do not go out when the fallout ash is falling, and wait for the civil defense to arrive. The nuclear deterrent, the squadrons with nuclear delivery capacity, some with stand off bombs, was all there was stopping Russia taking over Europe as we could not withstand a conventional war. The Cuban crisis, all our forces, the French and Americans nuclear strike forces were on the highest war alert ever. I think I can say, this experience colored my thoughts about the Russians, and will forever. My hubby was called out once, and I was not allowed to know where he went to and when he would return. That’s how it was then.

      • gusgrunt July 3, 2013 at 8:42 pm #

        How can we ever evaluate history, both objective or even subjective, when our history is polluted.
        The history of the Russian Revolution was not only polluted it was also perverted to suit a satanic vision.
        The Russian Revolution was ‘The Real Holocaust’ and the Russian Revolution was orchestrated and controlled by Jews (Robert Wilton-The last days of the Romanovs)
        There are many other scholar such as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn who experienced this holocaust and also wrote a book…. ‘Gulag Archipelago’.
        These two books are from the horses mouth….. not from the buildup of bored historians quoting from other scholars to make a buck! and….. many times that buck comes from vested interests.
        The Russian Revolution was a symbolic signal and was forecast in Disraeli’s book ‘Coningsby’.
        Too many roads already!

        If we look at a dictionary connotation of ‘holocaust’ …,
        1 destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, esp. caused by fire or nuclear war: a nuclear holocaust | the threat of imminent holocaust.
        2 historical a Jewish sacrificial offering that is burned completely on an altar.

        The murder of the Rominov’s was symbolic… Mark Weber.

        But….. many dictionaries have been edited to comply with our edited history… national politics is merely a distraction promoted by the ego’s of self interest…. the design of our future is not from our pens, has left the drawing board eons ago and is now in the final build.
        Nations are being screwed via the same mechanism that built them……. you see… we have no say… it’s pissing into the wind….. it’s all in the context we do not control….. Gus

        • The Blissful Ignoramus July 3, 2013 at 9:32 pm #

          Thanks Gus … most in the west really do not understand much (if anything) of all that has transpired in Russia since the murder of the Czar and his entire family. I have very deep empathy for the Russian people, and their (ongoing) sufferings. Consider which nations’ young women are most preyed upon by pornographers and sex slave traffickers — these being just one of many examples of the continued exploitation of the peoples of the former USSR.

        • Kevin Moore July 3, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

          More whitewashed history –

          UK, Zionist & US Holocaust Denial. Media Lying over Churchill’s Crimes & British Indian Holocaust

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